We here at Chakra are committed to telling you the whole truth. We don't hide anything, although we have our own perspective, which is independent and not dictated to us by the GBC. At CHAKRA, although we are friends with the GBC, we only present our own views. We speak of our own free will.

Go to the “Ritvik Page


His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Founder-Acharya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness

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Ajamila's Comment on Adridharana's Answer to Question No. 1

Dear Adri Dharan Prabhu,

Please accept my most humble obeisances at your feet. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

You stated:

"The purpose of this debate, as agreed by everyone, is to discuss the system of initiation for ISKCON that Srila Prabhupada ordered. It is not, as rule 6 states, to discuss the personal actions of any individuals."

Following the ‘correct procedure’ in discussing the system of initiation in ISKCON is an inseparable part of that system. Your concern about me discussing your personal misbehaviour is unwarranted since I address only your illegitimate abandonment of the authorised ‘correct procedure’ which is directly connected to the debate.

"Yet this is exactly what you have attempted to do:

"‘This illegitimate action of yours is what I would like to call into question.’"

Did Srila Prabhupada or did he not set up a proper procedure for debating GBC resolutions? And have you or have you not disregarded that procedure?

"The debate is not about:

"-> how 'rebellious' I am
-> whether or not I should have gone outside the GBC
-> or what is the proper procedure for settling disputes in ISKCON."

It is simply absurd to separate the proper authorised procedure from the current debate. Are you trying to make irrelevant a point which is directly relevant because you know that I have irrefutable proof that you are guilty of seriously violating the authorised appeal procedure given by Srila Prabhupada?

"These are all interesting topics, and I am happy to debate them with you personally, without any cessation. But first let's complete this debate, in which I am representing the IRG in regards to the evidence for Srila Prabhupada's orders for initiation in ISKCON, and you were supposed to be representing the GBC's views on the same subject."

Following the proper procedure for appealing a GBC decision is very much a major concern of the GBC on the same subject. If you don't believe me, ask them? If not, withdraw your point.

"This attempt to change the subject of the debate is only to be expected since, as we have demonstrated, that even before the debate has properly begun, you have been unable to accurately represent:"

This is but your attempt to avoid my legitimate question about the proper appeal procedure which is an inseparable part of the debate.

"-> the GBC position, (contradicting them in the process) or our position.

"And added to that was the fact that whatever 'evidence' you were able to muster up, you decided to eliminate."

You would do better to prove your points rather than make them up.

"Thus it is only natural that having already defeated yourself at such an early stage, you would wish to very quickly start a new debate on another subject,"

My next question addressing your above point will defeat you completely. Before I do that, I want all the assembled internet devotees to know that you have rejected Srila Prabhupada's instruction to follow the proper procedure for appealing GBC decisions.

"...if your evidence is simply: because the GBC say so then admit that. (Of course in such a case, you will still have conceded the debate, for this is just another way of admitting, that you do not have any evidence from Srila Prabhupada in this regard.)"

I have a store-house of bona fide evidence from Srila Prabhupada whereas you have only concocted wranglings which you call evidence. This has already been demonstrated and will be clearly illustrated again.

"But please do not try and evade the fact that you can neither counter the evidence we have presented, nor present contrary evidence, by trying to start a debate on another subject."

First produce some 'real' evidence. When you present me with a 'faked final order' and wild concoctions I bin them for you, and then you say I'm evading your evidence. First prove your so-called evidence is 'real' evidence. The onus is on you to do that. Come up with something REAL. So far you have only produced concoction after concoction after concoction after concoction.

"You again state:

"‘This rejection was based upon extensive research by ISKCON scholars which culminated in a definitive paper entitled prabhupadas Order.’"

"But this was the same paper that you already contradicted in your introduction."

You are so desperate to find a fault and so you 'create one' where there isn't one. This point that you have alluded to proves my point. The reason ritvik is unimportant in sastra is because it is not a major 'principle' of Vedic philosophy, it is merely a circumstantial detail. That is what I have said and that is what the GBC have said and so there is no contradiction, except in your 'creative' mind.

"Thus according to Ajamila (and the GBC) his own argument rests on a concept and word ('ritvik-acarya) that 'does not exist in vedic culture'. Thus he has defeated himself, and further he accuses Srila Prabhupada of propounding this non-existent word and concept by stating that Srila Prabhupada 'added acarya to the word ritvik'."

I said Srila Prabhupada used the word ('ritvik-acarya) circumstantially, this is a fact you cannot deny. I also said that Srila Prabhupada's usage was not to establish a ritvik priest as a major principle of Vedic culture, and that is a fact. I have always said that and so have the GBC. So you have only succeeded in creating another fabrication and confirming what I and the GBC have said all along. Thank you.

"And the answers to your questions are no, no and no."

Thank you for answering my questions.

Let me remind you of my questions:

"Do you admit that you have acted ILLEGITIMATELY by

" a) rebelling against Srila Prabhupada’s GBC authority structure, being immensely frustrated with your year-after-year failed attempts to influence ISKCON with the ritvik concoction?"

You blatantly say 'no' but everyone knows that you have done so in the past and that you continue to do so now. I can 'prove' this extensively. Would you like me to post some evidence to remind you?

"b) instigating directly or indirectly unauthorised and sometimes obscene, blasphemous, and harmful propaganda against the GBC, ISKCON, and ISKCON gurus?"

How can you say ‘no’ when you play a leading role in IRG who constantly blaspheme the GBC, ISKCON, and all ISKCON gurus? You are not being honest. Would you like me to also post this evidence as a reminder?

"c) disobeying Srila Prabhupada’s clear instruction in Caitanya-caritamrita not to take philosophical disputes outside ISKCON since this can only harm the reputation of his preaching mission?"

Again you say no but the whole of ISKCON knows what you are currently up to in Calcutta. After seeing your untruthful answers to my above rhetorical questions how can anyone seriously respect your 'philosophical' judgement?

"So in conclusion, you may now wish to discuss the general topic of how the GBC must be followed regardless of whether or not they are right or wrong."

I'm not here to enforce the GBC authority upon you, I'm here to remind you about the authority of sastra which you whimsically and dangerously disregard.

"Fair points for discussion. But let us first discuss whether or not they are actually right on this particular issue - which is the actual subject of this debate. To do this you need to counter the evidence we have presented with evidence from Srila Prabhupada, to justify the termination of his role as the diksa guru for ISKCON."

First of all prove you have 'real' evidence for ritvikism. Thus far you have only proved that ritvikism is made up of 100-plus concoctions, the grossest type of philosophical errors you could ever imagine. This is your only ‘success’.

"If you cannot do this, then just say so, but please don't try and change the subject. Its the oldest trick in the book."

Atmavan manyate jagat, you are projecting on others the very trick you so often deploy when all your faked evidence falls apart under scrutiny. Is this the only way you can protect all your feeble ‘straw man’ arguments?

Ys, Ajamila Dasa Adhikari

Go to the “Ritvik Page

Hare Krishna 
Hare Krishna 
Krishna Krishna 
Hare Hare 
Hare Rama 
Hare Rama 
Rama Rama 
Hare Hare


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